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Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.08.03 16:46:23 -
[1] - Quote
alpha36 wrote:Icycle wrote:I dont see the problem with what you call a "troll ceptor" The problem, the real problem and the biggest problem that anyone has with this new system is that it was supposed to help stagnation in 0.0 and encourage fights. Theres a few fights happening in the east but thats about it. Nobody in a troll ceptor is looking for a fight, they are looking to troll and be annoying, thats fine. Trolling and being annoying is cool ingame but it has no place in a robust, fun and rewarding sovereignty system.
Nothing about ceptor trolling keeps you from getting fights. Rocking back on your heels and whining about how hard it is to not attack your neighbors has no place in a robust, fun, and rewarding sovereignty system either. Post 1% of your coalition on ceptor guard duty and take the rest on a wildfire burn across the map. That content is avalible, but your leadership refuses to take part. They say it is pointless because all that sov can't be taken and controlled. Well yeah, that's the point guys and gals. You've said for years that it's all about the fights and now that it's actually all about the fights, we're back full-circle to the old MolleSov argument that it's about the appropriate and well-to-do players holding the space they so justly deserve.
There's absolutely nothing stopping you from holding most, if not all, the space you've got and spending the majority of your time generating content by way of absolutely melting the rest of nullsec. At one point that was the dream. Now it's all patty-cake titans around a stargate whining about how interceptors are boring. The only ones denying you content are in your own coalition. So get back to your Miniluv gank fleets and ishtar farming if that makes you happy, just don't whinge about the fact nothings going on in nullsec but ceptor trolling when the very last thing you do with your time is attack another sov holder in earnest. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.08.03 16:55:20 -
[2] - Quote
Sounds like your argument is you're totally unaffected and trollsov. Why are you posting? 40 trolls don't think they're supposed to sweep the region out from under you and they seem to be having a good time doing whatever "boring," thing you think they shouldn't be doing. Maybe it's time you stopped pretending that you care about their enjoyment and go make some content? |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2015.08.03 19:12:05 -
[3] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:People that support the game becoming more boring are hardly the types of people CCP should listen to when making development decisions. Hence, they're ignoring you and the rest of the "I CBA to chase a ceptor," crowd, because you're asking for a rollback to an even more stale and boring sov system. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 19:57:09 -
[4] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Sure, we'll snag one or three ever so often with a lucky smartbomb, but that's about the best you can hope for.
If he's determined to keep at it, I don't see why you needing to be determined to stop it is a problem. Not being able to easily womp a troll ceptor isn't a problem when he doesn't even need to die in order to prevent his capping.
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: You want to screw with sov, you should have to come prepared for a fight.
The entire point of the sov update was to allow screwing with sov without coming prepared for a supercap brawl. You seem to be confused. Maybe you should go talk with yourself from a year or so ago when you were behind the idea of localized conflict and occupacy sov. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2015.08.03 20:42:33 -
[5] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Billy Bojangle wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Sure, we'll snag one or three ever so often with a lucky smartbomb, but that's about the best you can hope for.
If he's determined to keep at it, I don't see why you needing to be determined to stop it is a problem. Not being able to easily womp a troll ceptor isn't a problem when he doesn't even need to die in order to prevent his capping. Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: You want to screw with sov, you should have to come prepared for a fight.
The entire point of the sov update was to allow screwing with sov without coming prepared for a supercap brawl. You seem to be confused. Maybe you should go talk with yourself from a year or so ago when you were behind the idea of localized conflict and occupacy sov. I am still behind these things. It is not the sov system I have as much of a problem with, as it is the meta of "ohgodruuuuun". That was a problem before the nano nerfs, it's been a problem since nullified interceptors and the Mordus ships became a thing, and this sov system has just highlighted that problem.
Well you've definitely got my support if you want to talk about nerfing bubble immunity and the cancer mordu ships, but unfortunately that's not what most of the pentagoon posters here are suggesting. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2015.08.03 23:35:34 -
[6] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Few people are asking for a rollback, most are just asking for action to be taken to make this system actually work. There's a whole lot of wiggle room there. I have not heard anyone but Gallowmere Rorschach articulate that the system would be OK if not for ceptors/garmur as they stand.
Lucas Kell wrote: And how is the old system more stale? We used to have fights most of the time.
Are you seriously comparing the better part of a decade to a couple months time? Also, what the hell was INIT. doing dunking NC. like that? Surely they were told that nofights is the current buzzword.
Lucas Kell wrote: Now, even the russian blocks have called a cease fire to their unending war. Nobody wants a serious fight with anybody, and the only people bothering to play with the new sov system would rather run away than actually fight for it because even they don't want the sov.
The russians are over-extended, it's not really surprising they're calling off hostilities to protect the motherland. If nobody wanted sov, we'd see blocs massively abandoning their sov. Or do you mean to tell me that everyone is just nostalgic?
Lucas Kell wrote: If you legitimately think this system is working and you're not just thinking "grr goons" then there's no helping you.
"Working," is a loaded term. Fozzie wanted a more dispersed null and he didn't get it, yet. Is that a signal that it won't ever work, maybe, but after just a month in the oven I'd let it bake a while. You still have your space and apparently it's not worth anything no matter how you take or defend it, so what do you care?
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Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2015.08.04 18:39:37 -
[7] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Icycle wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:trollceptor, the ak47 of random spaceguerrillafighters
never let go of it a ceptor is easy to catch all you need is isk to buy a ship the ship properly and maybe one or two guys to kill it. Its really easy compared to one of those guys with a booster alt that kills everything in their path and in order to be killed needs to be jumped by many. With links, you can make a ceptor uncatchable (under 2 sec warp) even with a fitted entosis module fitted and online. The fun part is you can also have your links uncloaked just when you need an fast warp and the cloak it so it can't be probed. Pretty sure it work even with ghetto level (T1 CBC + T1 link) of links.
First post in a newly minted OGB thread. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 14:54:58 -
[8] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:not actually participate in sov warfare. Well, they're trolling sov and causing a response. You can argue about what trolling and warfare REALLY mean, but they are participating in sov by doing so. I don't see the problem with Huns burning border villages in the sov. system. It's the CODE equivalent to nullsec. If the bears are lazy, they'll lose their ship or, in this case, space. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 15:24:25 -
[9] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Unless you think unwillingness to babysit structures for hours at a time (you know, in lieu of actually using your space, playing the game, or having fun) counts as "lazy".
You could make the same argument about using your alt to do missions instead of web your freighter. Not using your alt to web your freigher is lazy. Not having a scout and intel is lazy. Change a word or two there are you have why ceptors can troll your sov.
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Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 15:38:23 -
[10] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: No one uses a mission alt to web a freighter. Hell, you just need to lose one alt slot instead of a station trader, then have it follow your guy around. You need less than a week worth of skillpoints to do it.
It takes less than two hours to train a griffin alt capable of ending the entosis fun of a ceptor. |
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Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 15:55:59 -
[11] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I doubt that. None of the necessary skills have requisites, in-fact 2 hours was an over-estimate now that I check.
Lucas Kell wrote: When a guy in a disposable ship sees that you've had to come out and chase him away, he's having even more fun.
Immaterial to the point that he's no longer a threat to your node.
Lucas Kell wrote: Remember the problem here is they don't want to sov, so stopping them from entosising isn't a bad thing, it simply means they've wasted your time like they aimed to.
Again, immaterial. It doesn't matter that they don't want sov. just like it doesn't matter that CODE. doesn't want to haul stuff in freighters or mine in highsec themselves. Playstyles meant to destroy and annoy are valid. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 16:06:15 -
[12] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:failing to generate conflict There is no game mechanic that can generate a meaningful conflict. You're simply trying to blame another lame mechanic for your risk aversion. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 16:14:13 -
[13] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Because the bar for suicide ganking is so low, we have to scout and web or lose the hauler, even for just a shitfit destroyer. Literally the same arguments risk-averse carebears make about CODE. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 16:28:22 -
[14] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:the old system generated conflict Really? Because the Dominion sov system was universally reviled for not generating conflict either. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 16:55:02 -
[15] - Quote
Years vs. months yields a poor sample size for comparison. I think the jury is still out. And there are sov. conflicts, just not in the north where you've got it on lock. Nothing wrong with that. Your kingdom wasn't in peril before and from the sound of it you like it that way and would prefer even less effort be required to retain that space.
Lucas Kell wrote:Fights pretty much stopped when power projection did because nobody can be bothered to slowboat 40 jumps to get dropped on by the local defense fleet with no chance of escalation. Fozziesov smashed the final nail into the coffin with the end of the russian war.
I think you're confusing jump nerfs with aegis sov. They're separate issues. I too, dislike the fatigue mechanic. The new sov. impact on the Russians just shows how much space they had relative to their ability to defend it with an active player count. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 17:13:43 -
[16] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You would expect people to be shifting for conflict if it was being planned. But there's none of that. Sure, there's some minor fights occurring as there always has and always will be, but nothing really substantial. There's certainly nothing newsworthy coming out of it as of yet. Given the inertia of the major blocs, it's hard to be surprised that nothing major has come out of it yet.
Lucas Kell wrote:It's not so much the space, it's what happens if you are deployed and a small group shows up in your home. Large scale wars are not so simple to split attention from, so a large war wit h a large opponent leaves them open to attack from behind. Under the old system that wasn't so bad, the attackers had to commit quite heavily and you could pick the important battles. Under the new system attackers need 1 interceptor to attack a capture point. That's all. 1 interceptor. It's a much better plan to simply stop fighting with the other big guy and focus on preventing the little ones doing any serious damage. If the bar were higher there would be less threat of getting simultaneously hit at 100 different places if you deploy, so deployment would seem like a viable option.
That's a very diplomatic way of saying the Russians don't have enough players to occupy their space. I don't blame them for putting off their slap-fight in order to consolidate, but 1 interceptor isn't what put all their space in jeopardy. The fact they went against the grain and expanded their holdings prior to Aegis was their big mistake. They simply don't have the numbers to hold it. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 18:14:10 -
[17] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
CCP hire this man. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 18:47:57 -
[18] - Quote
Grouchy Smurf wrote: These are nodes out of their reinforcement periods, where they can attack them and claim them for themselves. And they are not doing it because it's not worth their time. Similarly, the Imperium does not defend them because by doing so it will enable MoA to launch trollceptors once more.
Why is there supposed to be a major distinction between reinforcement and attack? They have to bring a ship to reinforce so that is an attack of sorts. The fact they aren't bringing in a token fleet to get welped afterward seems like nothing more than good sense. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 19:09:21 -
[19] - Quote
Grouchy Smurf wrote: The first attack on a node with Entosis link puts the structure in reinforced mode. After that period ends, a second attack either blow up the structure (IHUB, TCU) or captures it (Station). Or obviously puts it back to the defender's hands.
Right. The point being the first action is an "attack," which you seemed to suggest wasn't the case above. Whether or not there is a followup doesn't mean there was no "attack," just that there was no followup.
Grouchy Smurf wrote: There are structures in Pure blink right now that are on their second capture circle for days. MoA doesn't want to destroy them because they will lose their trolling targets and the Imperium doesn't want to flip them back to secured because it will give new targets to MoA's campaign.
So it seems you've both arrived at new means to annoy one another. Content?
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Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 19:24:25 -
[20] - Quote
Grouchy Smurf wrote:That's what people complain about. There there is nothing going on, which was exactly what was the status quo during DominionSov. Well that's a bit of a tangent is it not? If it's easy as you're billing it to be for a guerrilla attack on sov. to be mounted... surely it would be no sweat for Imperium forces to launch a large scale campaign against another target? Nevermind for a moment that you don't want the space because, as we also discussed, you don't have to take it at all and are free to burn it for the sake of burning it.
The problem seems to be squarely on the shoulders to those who are not sending their forces hither to have fun rather than sitting at home playing wack-a-mole when everyone knows these skirmishers are no threat. |
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Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 19:48:57 -
[21] - Quote
Grouchy Smurf wrote: We can't risk serious resources without being able to escalate if needed, and we can't risk move escalation forces near the target if there is nothing that we really need in that area.
Risk from whom? I thought we agreed that there was trivial risk from the current reinforcements.
Grouchy Smurf wrote: Peacetime fleets for "Fun" go out almost every hour. You can be sure that they won't spend ~40 minutes looking at a node simply to reinforce a structure.
Well it's a good thing they don't have to. A fleet that size could reinforce hundreds of structures in that time.
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Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 20:17:37 -
[22] - Quote
Grouchy Smurf wrote: You said " large scale campaign against another target". I was thinking that you mean a real campaign against a real target . You know, the ones where capital ships are required.
You were obviously talking about trollceptors, so the answer is: Why would we have our members do something tedious without strategic value that will not even result in combat? If one of our members wants to go troll sov he can do it, it's up to him. Although, I would suggest a medical examinations afterwards.
DBRB spent months grinding structures in stealth bombers, but all of a sudden this is too tedious and of no strategic value? Sorry, but we both know less than half of capswarm could dunk anyone besides a unified bloc of your opposition, which does not exist at present. It's not as though a "fugoons," coalition would spring up over the weekend if you went and helicopter-dicked some region next week.
Lucas Kell wrote:Well, we're all too busy living in our space to deploy elsewhere. So why complain about the sov system when the mechanics of it have no bearing on whether or not you deploy?
Lucas Kell wrote:It's a way of saying that if a group flies away from their own space to attack someone else, they are weak on home defence. Weak on home defense because they don't have the numbers to support said defense while deployed.
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Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 20:31:30 -
[23] - Quote
Grouchy Smurf wrote:Spent months grinding structures back when they could escalate to fights. And this went away because aegis? Nope. It went away when the last coalition large enough to escalate against you imploded. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 20:44:08 -
[24] - Quote
Grouchy Smurf wrote:Aegis did help. And bomber fleets are different than trollceptors. I don't think anyone is arguing Aegis saved nullsec from coalition level risk aversion, but bombers grinding structures is literally slower at taking space than widespread ceptor trolling so you don't have a leg to stand on with this line of argument. |

Billy Bojangle
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2015.08.05 21:07:57 -
[25] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Why would we (or should we for that matter) risk our space to go deploying elsewhere when we can just live in our space spreading out the painfully boring structure mining and frigate chase over more people? If attackers don't have to commit anything to nullsec conflict, why should we? You aren't compelled to do anything, but if you're complaining about aegis sov. not providing content, you can't very well do that, and be taken seriously, from the vantage point of sitting around with every capability of generating said conflict with little risk to your own space. That's like a freighter pilot griping about CODE. while he refuses to log in one of his thousand web alts and scouts. Of course he can continue to autopiot through Udema, but nobody can take his complaints seriously when he has the resources at his disposal to solve his supposed problem. |
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